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Marc: Good morning to both of you!
Havard: Good morning!
Mike Pluke: Good morning - in about 10 minutes I will disappear for about 15 minutes - but will reappear and catchup on the discussion
Marc: OK.
Marc: I guess it is time to review what remains to be done for the Forum meeting and for Stockholm
Marc: I suggest that for the next session we plan decidedly for a run-through of open Action Items
Havard: ok; we might want to spend a minute on the agenda of the Stockholm meeting as well.
Marc: Good. Should we do that now?
Havard: I have a few documents to add to the agenda: 5.4 (new continuation proposal), 5.7 (doc that had been submitted), 5.8 (got something from KILarsson yesterday).
Havard: Otherwise nothing.
Mike Pluke: It probably doesn't warrant an agenda item - but one of the people who is working on the assignment of letters to telephone keypad keys has designed a really neat Visual Basic application that can be used to display Unicode characters with ALL of their associated details with input of the character code. I hope he will provide me with a copy that I can demonstrate and hopefully make available.
Marc: Sounds good
Havard: This can be discussed under 6.2, as a new sub-sub-item.
Marc: Yes
Havard: I can add it formally if you wish.
Marc: I think that'd be a good idea
Marc: possibly also in view of communicating this to both SC35 and the CLDR
Marc: both of which would probably be interested
Havard: CLDR (item 7.6) may need some more discussion than "normal" this time.
Marc: Yes
Marc: Also we'll probably have to invest some more time on feedback from the Forum
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Havard: Good morning, Erkki.
Erkki: Sorry, but I cannot participate this time, since I have another physical meeting right now. I'll read the minutes, though.
Marc: OK. I guess this will be a short meeting in any case
Havard: Agenda ok, I guess; new version will be made very soon. What to discuss for Forum?
Erkki: I've made flight reservations for Stockholm (arrival on Thursday at 14.30, departure on Friday at 22.55), but no hotel yet. I'm open for any suggestion.
Marc: largely the type of feedback that we'll hopefully get --- including possible actions on ISO as DB, EOR, and possibly ADNOM
Marc: I'll meet Gerhard at the eGov Steering Group meeting on Monday, so there may be room for a word or two on that
Marc: so, we'll have a reasonably full agenda next time:
Marc: 1. Preparation for Stockholm including the status of open action items
Marc: (and what we can do to get them done before the meeting, of course)
Marc: 2. Concrete planning for the Forum (with possible advance information from the 5th)
Marc: 3. Possible proposals under eEurope
Marc: However, we do need to decide *today* if we have any comments on the proposed work plan from DG Enterprise
Mike Pluke: I mentioned the ISO as DB issue at my ETSI Human Factors Technical Committee meeting - got some (small) interest in us looking to put some of our work into a DB form in the future. I agreed to monitor how you progressed in CEN.
Marc: OK
Havard: Marc: it is the "2007 ICT Standardisation Work Programme" document, right?
Marc: Yes
Marc: Mike: Do you have it?
Havard: I don't remember how widely I have spread it.
Marc: Tomorrow is the last day for potential input
Mike Pluke: At our ETSI meeting we discussed this and added in some words related to language and culture issues as a horizontal issue that their plan tends to ignore with all its "vertical" themes e.g. eHealth. I'll copy our document to you now - maybe the CDFG would like to reinforce the point.
Marc: and in Stockholm we'll need to set aside enough time to discuss if and how and in what combinations we want to enter that game. However, the general programme will be fixed by this
Marc: Mike: that'd be great
Havard: Good; I haven't found anything "wrong" with the document; it is always more difficult to find the missing parts.
Havard: But there isn't much mention of cultural diversity and multilinguality, etc.
Mike Pluke: Sent our marked up version of the document with a pae of comments - but didn't mark it as "urgent"
Marc: waiting for it
Marc: the easiest and most effective would be if we can explicitly reinforce the ETSI sentiments
Mike Pluke: Forgot to press "send" - just done it. At our meeting we had someone from the Commission from the team that drafted the document. We made the general point about the need to consider proposals on the "horizontal" issues like language and culture that may have significant impact across their priority themes. He seemed to fully understand the point.
Marc: that's at least a good starting point
Mike Pluke: Has the mail arrived?
Marc: not yet, unfortunately
Marc: not yet, unfortunately
Havard: I got it.
Havard: The words "cultural diversity" and "multilingual" could be fit into several of the items, actually. Once would be good.
Marc: Worms seems to have slower lines...
Havard: I did what you do when petrol doesn't come through the line: unplug, put it to your mouth, and suck!
Marc: Mike: could you maybe identify the key CDICT changes you are suggesting?
Mike Pluke: Yes. Several of the large number of supporting documents that they list in part 2 make some reference to things multilingual/cultural diversity. The big problem is that as their model of priority themes is structured, multilinguality and cultural diversity never look to be a major issue in any one theme. Thus, when proposals are evaluated, they will not know which reviewing team to send proposals based on such issues to. SO they are likely to get ignored (or so we believe).
Mike Pluke: That last reply wasn't to Marc's question - let me check
Mike Pluke: At the end of the intro to part II we added the words: "Proposals which relate to more than one domain (e.g. usability, linguistic and cultural diversity, user aspects of trust) will also be considered."
Mike Pluke: We added ". However, the domain structure should not act as a barrier to the submission of cross-domain proposals which address significant common issues." to the end of the "Introduction" section of the document.
Marc: OK, that makes sense
Havard: I think that much of the ETSI comments/additions are what we want to add as well.
Mike Pluke: We amended the first paragraph of the E-Inclusion section to read "The ESOs should address the needs of children (especially those under 12) and older persons in a Design for all contexts and ensure interoperable solutions in order to enlarge market sizes and increase the market opportunities. In line with the objectives of the e-Inclusion Riga Ministerial Declaration, approaches that address the removal or reduction of linguistic, cultural, social and economic barriers should also be addressed."
Marc: it still means that topics such as the template for minority languages will be difficult to fit in
Marc: that settles my comment --- it'd go under eInclusion
Marc: that settles my comment --- it'd go under eInclusion
Mike Pluke: Added "- to analyse the standardisation required to support the Member State Action to provide "language support" for eCalls at Public Safety Answering Points (PSAPs) as identified in "Intelligent Transport" domain, COM(2005) 431" to the "Intelligent Transport" section - this related to some specific ideas ETSI has and is not really a good re-inforcement for the general language/culture theme.
Havard: We could "push" some thoughts into eInclusion/eGovernment/eLearning/eHealth somewhere: necessary to enable the support of the large number of languages in Europe and the variation of cultural expectations.
Mike Pluke: The rest of the ETSI thoughts are included in the page that I appended to the beginning of our marked-up version of the Work Programme with a bullet - "linguistic and cultural diversity;" - hopefully you can both see that now (or is Worms still working slowly!).
Marc: it is, unfortunately
Marc: I don't know why it is so slow today...
Mike Pluke: The problem we hit with the text that accompanied the themes (like eGovernment) is that they were very narrow - e.g. invoicing. This made it very difficullt to insert words related to linguistic and cultural diversity issues.
Havard: The IDABC XML clearing house is mentioned; may be we could suggest something there to hang ADNOM on?
Marc: I was just in the process of suggesting that, too
Mike Pluke: The CDFG should be the ideal body to help the Commission broaden their thinking on e-Inclusion to include exclusion due to linguistic and cultural barriers. Their current text is totally focussed on the elderly - which cllearly must be this year's major focus in their minds. But often solutions to address e-Inclusion can be similar whether the barrrier is age, disability, language or culture - certainly they can all be total barriers. We need to try to educate the Commission!
Mike Pluke: Yes I too thought about that when I was looking through the e-Business side.
Marc: Hvard: maybe we can suggest an addition along the lines of "In the context of the IDABC XML Clearinghouse: Researching and describing common elements and semantic descriptions including terminology across sectors and administrative levels - as guidance for later standardisation"
Havard: (sorry, I needed to go out a minute)
Havard: Yes, that sounds sensible.
Mike Pluke: And to me to
Marc: (the mail has arrived now)
Marc: How should we progress? Mike: Do you think we can take your suggested changes and recommend them too, adding ADNOM on the way?
Havard: Suggestion: based on ETSI input and this discussion Marc could (could you?) draft some lines, and circulate today. (I am sorry that I am running to different meetings very soon, but I can follow up this evening.
Marc: that's a bit the question of whether or not we officially have your comments...
Mike Pluke: I think if you take the spirit of the ETSI comments and just change the words so it looks less like a complete conspiracy - just a natural case of parallel thinking - then that would be best. In other words, just try to avoid precise quotes of the ETSI words.
Marc: OK, I'll try to do that. It's a full day already, but so it is probably for all of us.
Mike Pluke: Given the way that standards bodies "officially" interact (slow and cautious) I would have to say that you don't officially have the ETSI comments (I am not the chairman and my company is not even an ETSI Member).
Mike Pluke: I have provided you with the comments as a source of inspiration!
Marc: then I'll restrict access to this chat log to the four of us
Marc: OK, then on to work
Marc: and thanks for the inspiration...